(0:00) People, because of fear, they create these unnatural dependencies where you're going to (0:06) say, I'm going to do something when something happens. I'm going to do this when this happens. (0:10) And if you operate like that with a startup in your life, you will never get anywhere because (0:16) you always have a reason not to do something.
And ultimately, fear is what's holding them back. (0:21) And so you have to push yourself, take that risk and eliminate those dependencies, whatever they (0:27) are. (0:52) Hello and welcome.
This talk is one of our new Startup Grind (0:55) series, we are doing one virtual event per month. These virtual events kind of (1:01) air more on the side of a workshop or some specific topic that a founder, (1:07) regardless of the stage that they are in, we think they can provide some value to (1:10) the audience, which is you. This also adds the benefit that we can reach people (1:15) that are not necessarily in Omaha and able to come to our in-person events.
(1:19) Even if you aren't in Omaha, you can check those events out that we did in (1:23) person. If you go to startupgrind.com slash Omaha, all of the events are there (1:28) and the recordings are there. So there's a lot of really great interviews with (1:31) very experienced founders who have exited companies or grown companies (1:35) to scale.
There are a couple of interviews with investors. Lots of great stuff you (1:39) can learn as a founder or an investor yourself. In this webinar, we're going to (1:43) interview John Bunting, who is the founder and CEO of Viso Studio.
Viso Studio (1:48) talks to hundreds of startups a month, possibly over 1,000 to almost 2,000 in (1:54) the last two years while they've been around. I will let John kind of dive into (1:59) his background here in a second and allow him to talk a little bit more about what (2:03) it is that Viso Studio does. But the focus of this talk is how do you set (2:08) yourself apart as a founder? How do you show that you are a great (2:12) founder for investors? And if you're an investor or interested in investing, how (2:16) do you assess startup founders? We all know that that's an important factor in (2:21) whether a startup succeeds or fails.
So how do you go about assessing yourself (2:26) or the founders that you're thinking about working with? What are those traits? (2:30) What are those attributes that John sees through all of the startups that he's (2:33) been working with and in his experience? So with that, let's go ahead and get (2:39) started. I'll let John give a little introduction of himself. (2:42) No, that's great.
I appreciate the intro, Craig. I mean, a little bit about my (2:45) background, as I was mentioning, worked for EA Games in California. It is an (2:52) interesting time to talk about for a second is that it was in 2007, 2009.
And (3:01) if you remember, the iPhone was introduced in 2007. Android devices were (3:07) just coming on the scene. You had when I was there, they released the iPad, they (3:12) announced the iPad, the first iPad.
So it was a fascinating time to be there (3:18) because there's this huge explosion of mobile games. And it was a huge shift (3:25) from these phones that you would use, like, you know, keypads and stuff and to (3:30) these touchscreens. It was just a huge shift.
So it was awesome to be there at (3:34) that time. So I spent several years at EA Games. I also worked for a bunch of (3:41) different car companies doing IT projects for them.
And then moved in to (3:48) work for University of Phoenix for a while doing stuff in the education space. (3:51) And then eventually I moved to Las Vegas, Nevada, co-founded a startup studio (4:00) there, ran that startup studio for a couple of years in Las Vegas. And then by (4:05) chance, I ended up here in Omaha, Nebraska, which is kind of an odd place to land.
(4:09) But this is where I've landed. And when I got here, I kind of realized that there (4:14) wasn't, you know, startup studios, there's roughly about 500 of them (4:19) worldwide. And most of them are outside the United States.
And when I got to (4:25) Omaha, when I started looking at the landscape, and just what is going on in (4:30) this area in the Midwest, I realized there wasn't a startup studio here. And (4:34) so, because of that, because of just my experience of running, working at a (4:40) startup studio previously, I thought it made sense to start Visa Studio, a (4:44) startup studio here. We're located in Omaha, Nebraska.
One of the great (4:50) advantages I think we have is that we're, we have a development team in Jakarta, (4:56) Indonesia. Through actually living in California, I was able to develop (5:01) relationships with our VP of development, he lives in Jakarta, Indonesia, we do (5:07) our development there. And then we're able to basically come in and help give (5:11) guidance and accelerate and do things very capital efficient for our startups (5:15) that we work with and help get them to scale, take them from an idea to (5:19) customers or revenue and get them growth.
And that's really where our expertise (5:23) is. (5:24) So so with that, and I know the context that you have, you know, within within (5:30) Visa, you and the team have talked to thousands of startups. What is that (5:35) perspective like, as far as, especially in the really early stage, I know that a (5:41) lot of the companies that you talked to are incredibly early, like pre product, (5:45) sometimes actual napkin idea, or just kind of formulating the idea stage.
What (5:51) are some of the things and how did you come about kind of noticing that it was (5:55) important to try to assess the founder at that early stage? And kind of what are (6:03) some of the things that you've noticed doing that? (6:07) Yeah, no, great, great question. Our VP of partnerships, Jake, he's, you know, he's (6:12) sort of formulated and this is probably true. We talked about 1000 startups a (6:16) year, roughly 100 or so a month.
And, you know, like I said, we talked to startups (6:22) all over the world, different ideas, different founders, different backgrounds (6:26) and such. And, you know, for us, it's, it's a very interesting experience, because (6:31) we learn a lot around what makes a good founder. The idea is, you know, obviously (6:38) a factor, but the founder, their personality, their background is also a (6:42) factor.
(6:43) So with that, what are some of those key characteristics that you have noticed and (6:49) that you look for when talking to founders? (6:53) The one thing about founders, what's interesting in going back to the ideas, (6:57) like we talked to a lot of people, a lot of different ideas, and I feel like we're (6:59) able to, you know, judge and evaluate, really, how great that idea is. And a lot (7:06) of that is a very analytical approach, where you look at revenue, you look at (7:09) market, you look at, you know, total addressable market, the competitors in (7:12) space, you build up financial models, you formulate, okay, this is the product that (7:18) would, you know, be disruptive or go into that white space. Point is, those are (7:22) very analytical.
The part that's a little bit more challenging to really measure (7:28) and understand is the founders themselves and the characteristics that make a good (7:34) successful founder. And I can tell you that a lot of times, those are very hard (7:40) things to measure. And I think a lot of the, you know, key characteristics are (7:43) just somebody who's determined and has a lot of drive to push something forward, (7:47) even though there's going to be challenges.
A lot of people get into a (7:51) startup, they start working on it, and they realize it's a lot more difficult (7:53) than they thought. They are required to step out of their comfort zone, they have (7:59) to do things they've never done before. One of those key things is sales.
I think (8:05) a lot of founders are very much about, hey, I want to go build this product. But (8:09) they don't think about the customer, they don't think of how I'm going to grow (8:12) this and get revenue. And so those are things that we're really looking for as a (8:16) founder that's forward thinking, who can take themselves out of their comfort (8:21) zone and start doing things they're really uncomfortable with, but able to (8:24) push themselves forward.
And there's a degree of resilience in terms of the (8:28) challenges that you're going to face with growing a business, especially with a (8:32) technical startup. So we work with tech startups all day long. That's our space (8:37) that we operate in.
And technical startups are a different, they're just a (8:43) different entity versus starting a brick and mortar business. Doing a technical (8:49) startup, you know, sometimes you have a technical founder, sometimes you don't. (8:54) And especially those technical startups that are started by somebody who's (8:56) non-technical, they have to attract and rely on a great technical team and a team (9:02) that they can trust.
There's a lot of things that come into that mix. And I (9:08) would say, that's really what we do is we talk to these people and we evaluate and (9:11) try to figure out who's got what, what they are. But I have seen to your point (9:17) earlier, go ahead.
(9:21) I was just gonna say to your point earlier, we have seen great ideas fail (9:25) because of the founder. To sum that up. I mean, it is, you know, founders, great (9:31) ideas.
And it's unfortunate, it kills us because we're like, that's a great idea. (9:35) You can get traction and we see positive things. And sometimes founders are afraid (9:41) of success.
Sometimes founders are afraid of getting out of product and focusing on (9:46) sales. There are varying reasons. (9:49) We see this a lot, that the first version of the product should scare you a little (9:53) bit.
One of our founders said something about, you know, we had no business putting (9:57) that product out into the market, but we did. And then we made it better. And I (10:01) think that, you know, founders might hear that and go, yeah, yeah, of course.
But (10:05) when it actually comes time to do it, it takes a little bit of courage or a lot of (10:08) courage to do that. (10:09) We had an instance that we literally had a product and it was a functioning product. (10:17) It was great.
The founder, we literally had a meeting with their first customer and (10:21) the first customer says, yes, I want to use this. Let's start tomorrow. And for (10:27) whatever reasons, the founder, going back to that comfort level, they were not, they (10:31) wanted to spend more time on development and not push it forward into sales, even (10:35) though they're a little bit embarrassed.
It wasn't quite where it needed to be. That (10:39) is kind of where their mind was at. And because of that, that window of opportunity (10:43) closed.
On the other hand, we have a founder that we're working with right now. (10:50) And actually we did a demo today and he made the comment, this is the best I've ever (10:54) seen it. And I'm no longer embarrassed.
And keep in mind, this product has been in the (10:59) market for over a year. Customers are using it. They're creating revenue.
But he (11:05) commented, I'm always embarrassed the way this looks. It's not exactly my vision. (11:10) But in today, a year later, he's like, it's where I want to be.
I'm so excited. It's (11:14) going to be where I want to be. But the point is, even when it was an embarrassing (11:19) product, it wasn't to the level of Facebook or Google or something like that.
(11:24) We were still selling it. We're still getting growth with it. So you have to, to your (11:28) point, you have to be comfortable putting it out there, even though there's some things (11:31) you're embarrassed about, you drive forward.
You're looking at the future vision, where (11:36) the product's going to be in the future, not where it is today. (11:39) Yeah, makes sense. So we have a question here in the chat.
What are your thoughts on when (11:45) assessing founders using some kind of like personality quiz or like one of those personality (11:51) assessments to do those assessments or even for a founder to assess themselves that way? (11:57) I think it is to a degree. We've looked at using personality assessments with founders. (12:05) It's really a hard one to say because some people, you know, they may just not want to (12:10) do it.
Plus, you know, it's very difficult to know, you know, does this person have (12:18) everything that we're looking for? And truthfully, the personality assessments, in my (12:22) opinion, they give you some visibility in terms of what that person is like today. (12:27) But it's hard to predict what they're going to be like in the future when shit gets (12:31) hard. That's really what it comes down to, because doing a business, doing a startup is (12:36) very difficult.
And when things get really hard, when the pressure's there, it's hard (12:42) to assess how somebody, you know, in terms of filling out a form and such, how are they (12:46) actually going to perform under that kind of pressure? (12:49) And to me, it's, you know, there's things that we do to assess them. (12:56) They probably don't know that, but there are things that we do to assess them. (13:00) Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we've heard that before from investors and stuff that I've talked (13:05) to that have kind of asked, like, how do you do those assessments? (13:09) Is there kind of a criteria? Is it quantifiable? (13:11) What is, in your mind, like kind of a list of traits that, you know, an investor could (13:19) use or a founder could use as like a checklist, basically? (13:23) Yeah, I think to list them off, somebody who's focused on selling, selling the (13:28) startup, selling the product, selling the vision, someone who can really energize and (13:33) make you want to be part of something. (13:37) That's absolutely key, like is being able to put yourself out there and communicate. (13:41) There are, you know, there's founders who really don't have a lot.
(13:46) Reality is it's a facade. (13:47) They don't have a lot behind them, but they're always out there talking and (13:50) speaking, and eventually their startup will catch up with the image that they're (13:56) portraying. We've seen some founders who have a lot behind them, but because they're (14:01) silent and they don't sell and they don't communicate, no one knows they exist.
(14:06) And it's unfortunate. (14:07) But it's not about lying. (14:10) I think people get confused and they go like, you know, look at Theranos or some of (14:14) these kind of or WeWork, right? (14:16) It's not that you need to lie.
(14:18) It's that you need to paint a picture and a vision and you need to be confident and (14:24) instill confidence in people that that vision is possible. (14:28) And then even if it's not real right now, you will figure it out. (14:32) Absolutely.
The other one is dependencies. (14:34) I think people, because of fear, they create these unnatural dependencies where (14:41) you're going to say, I'm going to do something when something happens. (14:44) I'm going to do this when this happens.
(14:46) And if you operate like that with a startup in your life, you will never get (14:51) anywhere because you always have a reason not to do something. (14:54) And ultimately, fear is what's holding them back. (14:57) And so you have to push yourself, take that risk and eliminate those dependencies, (15:02) whatever they are.
(15:03) Yeah, that makes sense. (15:05) Yeah. I mean, that's true in life in general.
(15:08) In the startup space, you'll hear the term bias towards action. (15:10) I mean, it's just a matter of, you know, take action, take the next step, not (15:15) waiting until, you know, waiting for permission or creating those dependencies. (15:22) Are there any more of those traits that you want to talk about before we move on? (15:26) Yeah.
The other ones are just, you know, determination, resilience, drive. (15:32) The last one I was just going to mention here is understanding your limitations. (15:37) Like I have weaknesses, I have limitations, I have gaps personally.
(15:41) I know exactly what those are. (15:43) So what I do is I go attract people to basically fill those gaps, to help me who (15:50) believe in the vision, who can fill those gaps and help, you know, move things (15:53) forward. And that's what you want in founders.
(15:56) You want founders who actually know where their limitations are and that they can (15:59) sell, attract, and bring in those people in their universe who can basically fill (16:03) those gaps. (16:05) So if someone is not great at selling their vision, would it make sense for them to (16:08) bring in someone that is sort of that sales co-founder? (16:12) Oh, absolutely. (16:13) Without a doubt.
(16:15) Yeah. (16:15) Yeah. (16:16) I mean, if you can't sell, go find somebody to sell.
(16:19) Yeah. (16:19) I mean, if you're not technical, go find someone who is technical. (16:21) Whatever those skills are that you don't have, go find co-founder, whoever, to come (16:29) on board and help you with that.
(16:31) For example, personal experience. (16:33) One of the issues I have is I am sometimes a little bit overly positive and I have, we (16:41) have an advisor. (16:42) I have an advisor.
(16:43) I meet with him once a week and he basically helps me level set with where we are in a (16:49) reality of what I need to focus on. (16:51) And he eliminates the rosy picture I often think of. (16:54) And he's like, you need to get this.
(16:56) You're, you know, consider these things, these risks. (16:59) It allows me to basically get grounded by having that advisor. (17:05) And so you look at your weaknesses, you find people to help you fill those gaps and (17:10) address those weaknesses.
(17:11) So on the flip side of that, on the positive traits, are there any kind of red flags (17:16) that when you're meeting with a founder, you hear about a founder and you just (17:22) immediately notice that, okay, this is going to be a problem? (17:27) There's one in it. (17:28) It's an interesting one too, for us to address. (17:30) But we, as I mentioned, we have a development team in Indonesia.
(17:34) We build software. (17:36) That's, we do it incredibly well, very skilled at it, but that's one of the things (17:39) that we do. (17:40) And so building softwares are innate abilities.
(17:43) That's what we do. (17:44) But one of the things that concerns me is when we meet founders who constantly want (17:49) to build software, who constantly want to keep adding features and not take it to (17:53) market, as I mentioned previously. (17:55) That is an inherent concern we have, especially when their first response is, (18:02) I'm going to do a startup and I'm going to build something.
(18:06) You, that's not how you do a startup to be successful. (18:09) You, you say, okay, I'm going to have an idea and I'm going to go sell it and find (18:14) my future customers and find out what they want and what they're willing to buy and (18:18) separate their, you know, their money from. (18:21) Um, then you go build whatever that thing is and you build it being very (18:26) incrementally, you build like a version one and a two and a three and a four.
(18:29) It goes back to the whole concept of minimal viable product. (18:34) That is what you should do. (18:36) As soon as founders tell me they want to go build something.
(18:39) It's a red flag. (18:41) Yeah. (18:42) Unless they have customers that are ready already.
(18:45) Unless they have customers and they've done that, those other stats, but they (18:50) waste. (18:52) Do you think that a founder that has like industry expertise that says like, I am (18:56) that customer, is that enough of a validation? (18:59) Um, or should they be looking for other people that can validate that idea beyond (19:07) just them? (19:08) I think it's, it's going back to getting customers, getting people who are (19:11) interested, talking to people in their own, we love that people in their network, (19:15) industry experts, they know people, they can call people. (19:19) They've got some demand.
(19:21) They know there's demand when you're building a product and you know, there's (19:25) customers for it on day one and they're paying customers. (19:28) That's the perfect situation to be in. (19:31) Um, too many people think it's the field of dreams.
(19:33) You build it and they will come and that doesn't happen. (19:36) Uh, so that situation we love, and then it's a matter of, okay, how many customers (19:42) are in your network you can utilize. (19:45) And then the next step there is go get a customer.
(19:48) You don't know. (19:49) Don't bring me a customer. (19:50) That's outside your network.
(19:52) You've never talked to and get them to convince them to buy it. (19:56) Cause that's a whole other, that's a whole other level of effort to do that. (20:00) And that's to me in real validation.
(20:03) Yeah. (20:04) That makes sense. (20:05) Yeah.
(20:05) It's not just like your cousin or something or your college buddies. (20:10) Yeah. (20:11) Yeah.
(20:11) Somebody launched the startup. (20:12) This was a couple of years ago. (20:13) They launched it and they're like, yo, we just launched today.
(20:16) We got, you know, 30 people signing up. (20:18) My mom signed up, my brother signed up. (20:21) My dad's literally, this is what they're telling me.
(20:22) I'm like, none of that has any value. (20:26) Go find me somebody you've never talked to and get them to sign up. (20:30) Not your aunts, uncles, and cousins.
(20:32) That doesn't count. (20:33) Are there any other red flags that a founder could be thinking of or (20:37) investors could be looking out for? (20:38) Yeah. (20:39) I think, like I said, you know, understanding your limitations.
(20:41) When a founder tells me I know everything and I can do it all (20:44) myself, that's a concern, obviously. (20:46) These are life lesson kind of things. (20:50) Someone who overvalues themselves, you know, when you get on a call with (20:54) somebody, a founder, and they tell you, you know, they, they have an idea (20:57) and they tell you it's worth $10 billion and you're like, I mean, it's hard (21:04) not to laugh in these situations, but you're like, let's get realistic.
(21:09) You gotta get step one done first. (21:11) Like, so that is a red flag. (21:15) People who have unrealistic valuations, unrealistic expectations of where they (21:20) are, yeah, those are all red flags.
(21:25) Somebody who can't, who doesn't know the details today, I talked to a (21:31) founder, we talked for a long time. (21:33) And he was talking to somebody, you know, a couple of weeks ago, months (21:35) ago, and get on the call with him. (21:38) And he's like, I want to go build all this stuff.
(21:40) And we're like, well, what are you currently doing? (21:41) And he's like, this is what I'm doing. (21:42) I want to automate our processes. (21:44) I'm like, great.
(21:46) You know, let's, let's put together a list of requirements. (21:49) User stories is what we call them. (21:51) Put together a list of user stories.
(21:52) Tell me the functionality you want. (21:55) And a lot of times founders can't sit down at a keyboard and start typing. (21:59) Like it's a gap in their abilities.
(22:02) Like that's a red flag. (22:03) If I tell somebody, write me a paragraph describing what you want. (22:07) And they're, they're unable to simply do that.
(22:10) It's a red flag because it means they can't focus. (22:13) They can't complete a task. (22:15) They can't, you know, articulate what exactly they want is.
(22:18) Those are all concerns. (22:21) And that's actually one of the methods we use to kind of weed people (22:24) out is we give them simple tasks. (22:27) You know, provide us this information, write me a description, you know, do this.
(22:32) We give them simple tasks and depending on how they perform that task tells me (22:37) if they're going to be a good founder long-term or not. (22:40) It's like one of those small things. (22:41) Like, will you actually respond to an email? (22:43) Yeah.
(22:43) These are multipliers in my mind where, you know, if you can't, it's a, it's a (22:47) ripple in a pond if you can't do the simplest thing when stuff gets hard. (22:52) How are you going to handle that? (22:54) When you have like hundreds and hundreds of people email you and there's like (22:56) hundreds of millions of dollars on the line. (22:59) Yeah.
(22:59) I've heard other investors mention that too. (23:00) It's like, Hey, uh, you know, I asked you for some due diligence stuff and you (23:06) didn't even, you know, respond to that message. (23:09) That's like, what are you doing? (23:12) Which I sympathize with the founder, you know, sometimes cause they may do be (23:16) responsive and they may not hear back from the investor in three weeks, but I (23:19) mean, it really all comes down to, there's a bit of a dynamic of like who needs who (23:23) or, so what about from the investor side? (23:26) Like what should investors be looking at and how can, you know, founders on the (23:30) flip side of that be making sure that they're, you know, showing their best (23:35) self to the investors, but really from the investor perspective, how can they (23:39) assess founders and create kind of those little tests, if you will.
(23:43) And I appreciate the question. (23:44) I will, I will give some context on the investor side. (23:48) One of the things that we do with our startups is we help them raise funding.
(23:51) Um, we are actively engaged with investors, angel investors. (23:57) We, you know, we will meet with them. (23:59) We'll tell them, you know, basically and make introductions.
(24:02) We help, um, get advice on term sheets and equity and, and all that stuff. (24:07) So we are actively engaged on the investor side. (24:09) Um, we have a network of angel investors, investor syndicates (24:12) and VCs that we're connected with.
(24:14) Um, and we've had good success at raising venture capital, you know, (24:19) investment for our startups, um, in understanding that our starts are very (24:23) early stage and yet we've been able to successfully raise funding for them. (24:27) Um, we'll probably, by the end of year, we'll probably double the amount of money (24:32) that we've been able to raise for our startups. (24:34) So with that being said, um, going back to what investors are looking for, (24:39) they're, you know, the investors in our network, the investors that we (24:42) talked to, um, they're really looking for startups that can exponentially (24:47) scale that can venture scale, get multiples of a return on, um, they're (24:51) looking for startups that, you know, are beyond just their aunts, uncles, (24:58) and whoever their local network is that they can actually get those customers.
(25:02) That are outside their network and be able to attract them. (25:05) And then retention, retaining that customer, keep that customer on board (25:09) using your product is one of the key things investors are looking for. (25:12) So they're looking for growth and they're looking for retention of those users.
(25:16) Um, and then investors are looking for founders that are, you know, very (25:21) engaging that have a great vision and who have a clear path and roadmap in (25:26) terms of what they want to follow. (25:27) What are some questions that a founder might, or what are some questions that (25:31) an investor might ask, uh, two founders that can kind of help, you know, decide (25:38) whether or not the vision that they have is realistic, or if the founder's (25:43) kind of being delusional, like where can they figure out that, that balance (25:47) or even how could a founder self-assess and say, am I being, you know, do I have (25:53) a big enough vision for this? (25:55) And also like, am I just being delusional? (25:58) You know, that's a hard one. (25:59) I, I remember, um, one of our investors told me actually this weekend I was (26:04) talking to him and he's like, he's invested in one of the startups that we (26:09) work with.
(26:10) And his comment was, I couldn't tell if I was being sold to, or if they actually (26:15) get able to sell the product. (26:17) Um, which is a hard differentiation to determine, distinguish that. (26:22) And, and the key thing is that, you know, investors really want to have confidence (26:27) and really want to see that they're, the risk is being mitigated, you know, (26:31) whatever that risk would be that there's, you know, there's mitigations for risk.
(26:35) There's a clear roadmap. (26:36) Um, investors want to be able to look at the personality of the founder, making (26:41) sure that that founder has a good grasp of their reality and as well as the, you (26:45) know, their ability to take that product and get it to market. (26:50) Um, the other part there is I also think investors have some, you know, they want (26:54) a founder who's also resilient in terms of understanding there's going to be some (26:58) challenges and there's going to be some, you know, things that come up that you (27:01) have to work through.
(27:02) Um, and, and the other thing with investors, they want communication. (27:06) So going back to the communication part, they want regular updates. (27:09) So I want to know how their startup is going.
(27:11) They want to know how the founder's progressing. (27:13) And the other point being is it's a long-term relationship with those (27:18) investors. (27:20) Uh, one of the things that people don't realize is that you're not going to make (27:24) a phone call to go get money from some angel investor who doesn't know you.
(27:28) Your initial investment is based on their personal relationship with you. (27:33) The more the investor knows that person, the more likelihood they are to invest, (27:39) especially early stage, later on investors who don't know you, um, are (27:44) investing more in the product than they are in their relationship with you. (27:47) So that's the other thing to keep in mind.
(27:49) Yeah. (27:49) I mean, there's an interesting thing that keeps coming up. (27:51) I think we've seen it with a lot of the founders that we've interviewed through (27:54) our startup grind chapter, and I've heard you talk about this.
(27:57) Um, and it's, it's kind of, you have to find this balance between having a big (28:02) vision, but also being able to pull back into the present moment and really see (28:08) things as they are, figure out how to. (28:11) You know, connect those two dots. (28:13) If you live too much in the big, big vision and it's, you come off as (28:17) delusional, uh, because you were ignoring the, you know, minutia of what's (28:21) happening right now, but if you get too focused on that minutia and the details (28:25) happening right now, you get an analysis paralysis and you either aren't thinking (28:28) big enough or you may psych yourself out and, and not make any progress because (28:33) you're, you're too focused on what is happening right now and not really the (28:36) opportunity and not painting a big enough picture for an investor to be interested (28:39) if you're not really able to, uh, sell that vision.
(28:44) Um, but so it's really like a balancing act of being able to do both. (28:48) And one, one thing I will also say, and I learned this a while back during (28:54) COVID, um, especially during the lockdowns in 2020, I, I basically, it's (29:01) kind of crazy, but I ended up setting up meetings with angel investors, um, (29:05) because I knew, you know, the industry, there was a lot of upheaval, a lot of (29:10) unknowns, and I literally set up calls with angel investors. (29:14) I probably met with about 400 angel investors in a, in a three month period.
(29:18) Maybe, maybe it was six months, three to six months, we'll say. (29:22) And I would have these regular discussions with angel investors. (29:25) And it was fascinating because, you know, to me, I was just making that network (29:30) connection and getting on a zoom call and talking to them.
(29:33) But I learned a lot that not all investors are the same. (29:37) They all don't think monolithically. (29:39) They have different requirements, different things they're looking for, (29:42) different industries they're into, um, different types of, you know, (29:46) stages for that investment.
(29:48) So some investors like early stage, some investors like seed stage, (29:52) there's varying degrees. (29:54) So my, my comment there is that, you know, just cause you go to one (29:57) investor and they say, no.